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 Posted: Mon Apr 30, 2007 9:58 am Post subject: Melamine tainted wheat gluten, false positive test, pet food |
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I've seen this kind of cheating before from China, they lack many
industrial standards, and if they violate them, what are you going to
do, sue the Communist Party? Rotsa ruck. It looks like what they were
doing is adding melamine, which is very nitrogen rich (and very cheap)
to cause a false positive on the test for protein, which is how the
commodity is adjusted upward for price. My question is, what are the
test protocols, was it so crude that it could so easily be beat? Was
it a simple burn test? Any technical information on this would be
interesting and useful. Answers or speculation, anybody?-Jitney |
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Marvin
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| Posted: Mon Apr 30, 2007 10:18 pm Post subject: Re: Melamine tainted wheat gluten, false positive test, pet |
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jtnospam@yahoo.com wrote:
| Quote: |
I've seen this kind of cheating before from China, they lack many
industrial standards, and if they violate them, what are you going to
do, sue the Communist Party? Rotsa ruck. It looks like what they were
doing is adding melamine, which is very nitrogen rich (and very cheap)
to cause a false positive on the test for protein, which is how the
commodity is adjusted upward for price. My question is, what are the
test protocols, was it so crude that it could so easily be beat? Was
it a simple burn test? Any technical information on this would be
interesting and useful. Answers or speculation, anybody?-Jitney
It was not unknown (but I don't know how common) for farmers |
in the U.S. to mix some ammonium nitrate into their grain to
increase the protein values determined by Kjeldahl analysis.
The advent of near-infrared (NIR) analysis made that scam
useless, since NIR doesn't measure ammonium nitrate as
protein. But NIR results are influenced by melamine
(http://pharmamanufacturing.wordpress.com/2007/04/06/whodunit-nir-and-why-melamine-may-be-poisoning-the-pets/).
It may be possible to adjust the NIR methods to detect
melamine and to correct the protein results.
I don't know if China is using NIR analysis for grains.
When labor is cheap, the incentive to buy expensive new
equipment is less. |
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Bill Penrose
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| Posted: Tue May 01, 2007 12:16 am Post subject: Re: Melamine tainted wheat gluten, false positive test, pet |
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On Apr 29, 10:58 pm, jtnos...@yahoo.com wrote:
| Quote: |
I've seen this kind of cheating before from China, they lack many
industrial standards, and if they violate them, what are you going to
do, sue the Communist Party? Rotsa ruck. It looks like what they were
doing is adding melamine, which is very nitrogen rich (and very cheap)
to cause a false positive on the test for protein,
|
China owns much of the paper that the Administration prints to get
extra money for its various adventures and no-bid contracts. At this
point, the Chinese might collapse the US economy if they started
selling off the paper at a discount. The melamine poisoning is just
the beginning of the things we're going to have to suck up and live
with. Get used to it.
Dangerous Bill |
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hanson
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| Posted: Tue May 01, 2007 7:59 am Post subject: Re: Melamine tainted wheat gluten, false positive test, pet |
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"Bill Penrose" <penrose@iit.edu> wrote in message
news:1177964202.861866.138660@h2g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
| Quote: |
On Apr 29, 10:58 pm, jtnos...@yahoo.com wrote:
I've seen this kind of cheating before from China, they lack many
industrial standards, and if they violate them, what are you going to
do, sue the Communist Party? Rotsa ruck. It looks like what they were
doing is adding melamine, which is very nitrogen rich (and very cheap)
to cause a false positive on the test for protein,
[Bill]
China owns much of the paper that the Administration prints to get
extra money for its various adventures and no-bid contracts. At this
point, the Chinese might collapse the US economy if they started
selling off the paper at a discount. The melamine poisoning is just
the beginning of the things we're going to have to suck up and live
with. Get used to it.
Dangerous Bill
[hanson] |
Yo, Uncle Bill, don't become green and paranoid on me now.
The China/US game is just a part of globalization. That's the
only thing we have to get used to. AFA is US/China relation
in isolation consider that we are their largest customer.
It is in China's very own interest to keep us happy, for if we
stop our rampant consumerism for social, ideological or
financial reasons China will dive with us and there would be
a global meltdown which would make the great depression
look like a Sunday school prayer....
| Quote: |
....much, much more than all that melamine-bad-for-mutts hysteria |
is the psychopathic public "Affenliebe" and the official legalization
of raising animal rights above human rights... That is something
that we ought to worry about... ... Of cousre not for the crafty
lawyers who are already seeing Billons from class-action suits.
| Quote: |
BTW, I found poster Marvin's tripe below very interesting. |
Says Marvin:
It was not unknown (but I don't know how common) for farmers
in the U.S. to mix some ammonium nitrate into their grain to
increase the protein values determined by Kjeldahl analysis.
The advent of near-infrared (NIR) analysis made that scam
useless, since NIR doesn't measure ammonium nitrate as
protein. But NIR results are influenced by melamine
(http://pharmamanufacturing.wordpress.com/2007/04/06/whodunit-nir-and-why-melamine-may-be-poisoning-the-pets/).
It may be possible to adjust the NIR methods to detect
melamine and to correct the protein results.
I don't know if China is using NIR analysis for grains.
When labor is cheap, the incentive to buy expensive new
equipment is less.
I don't know much of an urban legend that is. NH4NO3
comes as white crystals or pellets that are very easily
discerned from grain. To boot, if so suspected the high
& easy water solubility of NH4NO3 would make it easy
to be detected simply by washing the grain and then
test the eluent for N in the traditional way.
Should the crooked farmers have poured NH4NO3
solution over the grain, it then would have absorbed
it and become soft and swollen. Easy to catch the fraud...
| Quote: |
Thanks guys, hanson |
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Uncle Al
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| Posted: Tue May 01, 2007 7:04 pm Post subject: Re: Melamine tainted wheat gluten, false positive test, pet |
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Bill Penrose wrote:
| Quote: |
On Apr 29, 10:58 pm, jtnos...@yahoo.com wrote:
I've seen this kind of cheating before from China, they lack many
industrial standards, and if they violate them, what are you going to
do, sue the Communist Party? Rotsa ruck. It looks like what they were
doing is adding melamine, which is very nitrogen rich (and very cheap)
to cause a false positive on the test for protein,
China owns much of the paper that the Administration prints to get
extra money for its various adventures and no-bid contracts. At this
point, the Chinese might collapse the US economy if they started
selling off the paper at a discount. The melamine poisoning is just
the beginning of the things we're going to have to suck up and live
with. Get used to it.
|
Yup. If China were otherwise occupied washing its hair for three
consectutive T-Bill auctions the US would be no more.
A man and a horse were sore bothered by a wolf. The man said to the
horse, "if only you would allow me to bridle and saddle you we could
together hunt down and kill the wolf."
It sounded like a good thing to the horse - a strategic partnership
just like in his casebooks. The man mounted and together they hunted
down and slayed the wolf. The horse then turned, looked at the man on
his back, and said "The wolf is dead! Free me."
The man said "GIDDYAP!" and applied his spurs.
So the Arabs and oil. So China and manufacture. Stacked freeway
overpasses near Oakland, CA were literally melted out of the sky by a
crashed gasoline tanker. Commuter transporation is ended until
repaired. Latest estimate is at least one year - no steel worldwide
(China is sucking it up, the US is no longer a producer), no concrete
worldwide (China is sucking it up, the US is no longer a producer),
and there are Enviro-whiner issues about disposal and reconstruction.
How small we have become. It would be ~30-45 days of trades' work in
the Oil Patch. When we had an Oil Patch. When we had tradesmen.
--
Uncle Al
http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/
(Toxic URL! Unsafe for children and most mammals)
http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/lajos.htm#a2 |
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Bill Penrose
Guest
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| Posted: Tue May 01, 2007 10:10 pm Post subject: Re: Melamine tainted wheat gluten, false positive test, pet |
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On Apr 30, 8:59 pm, "hanson" <han...@quick.net> wrote:
| Quote: |
Yo, Uncle Bill, don't become green and paranoid on me now.
...It is in China's very own interest to keep us happy,
|
I'm not religious about green or non-green, so I don't feel I have to
subscribe blindly to any environmental philosophy.
The Chinese are not a monolith. They're all trying as individuals, or
corporations, to make money, same as us. If they can do it by fooling
the protein analysis with melamine, and get away with it, someone over
there will do it and laugh in our faces.
My point was, our ability to fight back is limited by our
indebtedness. And Americans aren't going to turn in their iPods and
stop buying their cheap clothes until we've *all* got kidney failure.
China's faith in the endless appetite of Western countries is a
solidly based economic strategy.
I have a much scarier story about Chinese entrepreneurship that I
received through a doctor friend directly associated with a 'large
international health organization'.
The Chinese are in the business of making counterfeit medications on a
large scale. I mean huge, many-acre-sized factories. They faithfully
copy the holograms and other antifraud devices on the capsules. They
even put a little of the authentic drug in to fool the field tests for
authenticity.
These drugs are being sold into Africa for TB treatment. As a result,
the inadequate doses of rifampicin and isoniazid etc are breeding new
and more powerful strains of resistant TB (the so called XDR TB) that
are already showing up in larger American cities. Good going,
globalization.
For more scary shit, check out the WHO website under 'counterfeit
drugs' to see how widespread these practices are.
Dangerous Bill |
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hanson
Guest
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| Posted: Wed May 02, 2007 3:37 am Post subject: Re: Melamine tainted wheat gluten, false positive test, pet |
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"Bill Penrose" <penrose@iit.edu> wrote in message
news:1178043059.868045.159540@o5g2000hsb.googlegroups.com...
| Quote: |
On Apr 30, 8:59 pm, "hanson" <han...@quick.net> wrote:
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.chem/msg/93462d0cb0054869
Yo, Uncle Bill, don't become green and paranoid on me now.
...It is in China's very own interest to keep us happy,.....
[Bill]
I'm not religious about green or non-green, so I don't feel I have to
subscribe blindly to any environmental philosophy.
The Chinese are not a monolith. They're all trying as individuals, or
corporations, to make money, same as us. If they can do it by fooling
the protein analysis with melamine, and get away with it, someone over
there will do it and laugh in our faces.
My point was, our ability to fight back is limited by our
indebtedness. And Americans aren't going to turn in their iPods and
stop buying their cheap clothes until we've *all* got kidney failure.
China's faith in the endless appetite of Western countries is a
solidly based economic strategy.
I have a much scarier story about Chinese entrepreneurship that I
received through a doctor friend directly associated with a 'large
international health organization'.
The Chinese are in the business of making counterfeit medications on a
large scale. I mean huge, many-acre-sized factories. They faithfully
copy the holograms and other antifraud devices on the capsules. They
even put a little of the authentic drug in to fool the field tests for
authenticity.
These drugs are being sold into Africa for TB treatment. As a result,
the inadequate doses of rifampicin and isoniazid etc are breeding new
and more powerful strains of resistant TB (the so called XDR TB) that
are already showing up in larger American cities. Good going,
globalization.
For more scary shit, check out the WHO website under 'counterfeit
drugs' to see how widespread these practices are.
Dangerous Bill
[hanson] |
Points well made, Bill... and most of all I like your 1st line: "I'm not
religious about green ... [and] The Chinese are not a monolith."
| Quote: |
Cool. Now also remember, we had similar collective worries b4 |
in the US when the Japs were riding high and owned half of LA, &
when the Ass-venters bought half of Beverly Hills with their Petro$$.
These societies will face the same problems that we had/ve to
tackle with... I am not worried. Trees do not grow heaven high.
| Quote: |
AFA the abhorrent drug manufacturing practices. That is not |
new nor exclusive to China and I might turn the problem around
and say "what kind of government do we have that cannot even
guarantee the quality of drugs for the sick and geriatrics, because
our own Pharma/Medical complex has bought off and owns all
politicians"... with the exception one cong. (Anderson?) who started
an Anti-pharma crusade...
| Quote: |
Bill, it's been good talking to you. Take care and have fun, despite |
and even because of the fact that there are things that suck.
Make'em succulent... the lemon/lemon juice way... ahahaha...
hanson |
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