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Vendicar Decarian
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 Posted: Sun Apr 08, 2007 10:23 am Post subject: Re: Government-bought farms collapse |
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| Quote: |
"Vendicar Decarian" <BushIsATraitor@hotmail.com> wrote in message
It's rather obvious. Virtually all trade with the country is restricted
as a result of the U.S. embargo that punishes not only AmeriKKKans who
trade, but confiscates the property of any other person who happens to
trade and who's property is accessable to the U.S. government.
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"Jim Webster" <jim@websterpagebank.freeswerve.co.uk> wrote
| Quote: |
pity it happened before the sanctions really, otherwise you'd have been
saved the embarassment of having to think up excuses
|
Hmmm, what could be the point of placing sanctions against the export of
product from a nation that is undergoing an economic decline? Hmmmm... I
wonder what purpose that would serve... Hmmm. I wonder what the effect
that would have.... Hmmmm. In wonder what the effect of restricting
international investment would have on a declining economy? Hmmmmm
Gee, I wonder.... Don't you? |
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Vendicar Decarian
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| Posted: Sun Apr 08, 2007 10:30 am Post subject: Re: Government-bought farms collapse |
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| Quote: |
Vendicar Decarian <BushIsATraitor@hotmail.com> writes
What she witnessed, she witnessed first hand. I would say her take on
reality is much more tuned to reality than yours apparently.
|
"Oz" <Oz@farmeroz.port995.com> wrote
| Quote: |
I employed (in the UK, as a farmstudent) a black zimbabwean, he
disagreed with you.
|
So he disagrees that I heard a conversation that he was not present to
hear or witness?
By that logic, I therfore deny that he exists.
"Oz" <Oz@farmeroz.port995.com> wrote
| Quote: |
There is a white ex-zimbabwean who left about 10 years ago in my
village. He has many friends both black and white in, or recently in,
zimbabwe, he disagrees with you.
|
So he disagrees that I heard a conversation that he was not present to
hear or witness?
By that logic, I therfore deny that he exists.
"Oz" <Oz@farmeroz.port995.com> wrote
| Quote: |
I recently returned from south africa, where an astonishing number of
waiters and other hotel staff seemed to be either zimbabwean or had
family in zimbabwe (both black and white) and they most certainly would
violently disagree with you.
|
So you have gone back in time and asked them and then come forward in
time to inform me?
Or is it that you are just projecting your opinions on them - not having
informed them of the conversation that I had after you had left their
presence?
"Oz" <Oz@farmeroz.port995.com> wrote
| Quote: |
The UK press and reporters who report on zimbabwe would definitely
disagree with you.
|
Oh, I don't think you have asked them either.
"Oz" <Oz@farmeroz.port995.com> wrote
| Quote: |
The economist reports would definitely disagree with you.
|
Economists would disagree that placing trade sanctions on a nation whose
economy is based on exports will not damage the economy?
They must be employed by the Cato institute to lie.
"Oz" <Oz@farmeroz.port995.com> wrote
| Quote: |
So, I guess your attempt at some propaganda may not be that effective, I
hope you were well paid.
|
In other words, your valueless opinion is that others would share your
opinion if you had actually asked them.
Now there is an argument.
Ahahahahahahahahahahahaha...... |
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Oz
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| Posted: Sun Apr 08, 2007 10:34 am Post subject: Re: Government-bought farms collapse |
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Vendicar Decarian <BushIsATraitor@hotmail.com> writes
| Quote: |
What You Need To Know About U.S. Sanctions
INTRODUCTION - On March 7, 2003, as a result of actions and
policies by certain members of the government of Zimbabwe,
and its supporters to undermine democratic institutions and
processes in Zimbabwe, President Bush issued Executive
Order 13288 imposing sanctions against specifically identified
individuals and entities in Zimbabwe.
The new Executive Order expands the list of sanctions
targets to include immediate family members of any designated
individual of the Zimbabwe sanctions, as well as those persons
providing assistance to any sanctions target.
|
Please note, as has been stated many times in the UK media, that the
sanctions are specifically and exclusively against members of the
government (and high up ones as well).
General trade is not affected.
Visits to various countries of these officials and their family are
prohibited, as are banking and other facilities.
Its mostly argued by UK journalists that this is pretty ineffective
given SA is not party.
Food imports are not affected, except of course zimbabweans would have
to pay in foreign currency (like everybody else).
Vendicar is either very ignorant on what he writes,
or deliberately lying.
--
Oz
This post is worth absolutely nothing and is probably fallacious. |
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Vendicar Decarian
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| Posted: Sun Apr 08, 2007 10:41 am Post subject: Re: Government-bought farms collapse |
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| Quote: |
Vendicar Decarian <BushIsATraitor@hotmail.com> writes
I happened to be talking to a young girl from Zimbabawe the other day -
she had been in the country for about a year - and asked her to give me
her
opinion on the matter.
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"Oz" <Oz@farmeroz.port995.com> wrote
| Quote: |
You mean she was zimbabwean, or had been in the countru 'for about a
year'?
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In this country for a year - out of her country for a year.
| Quote: |
She was exceptionally eloquent, and well reasoned.
She started by giving me a review of the history of the issue, the problem
in a nutshell, the government solution, the results, and her opinion of
the
final result.
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"Oz" <Oz@farmeroz.port995.com> wrote
| Quote: |
Now that is very improbable.
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It was certainly a refreshing change from the grunts and disjoing rambling
and aborted reasoning that I normally hear from other people of her age. So
impressive in comparison, I had to profusely congratulate her.
"Oz" <Oz@farmeroz.port995.com> wrote
| Quote: |
Real people just do not do that but ramble
somewhat around the subject. Of course if its a learned piece of
propaganda, that's just what they WILL say.
|
Ahhhh, so she is part of a conspiratorial plot to paint Mugabe in a good
light. Sent here to wait at bus stops and engage in light banter with the
locals and slip in pro-Mugabe propaganda.
Brilliant. An absolutely Brilliant strategy..... Ahahahahahaah.........
| Quote: |
Very impressive for a 17 year old I thought, and had to commend her
profusely for her intelligence and completeness, when in AmeriKKKan
society,
the typical reply coming from the average 17 year old is an ignorant
grunt,
or a "whah", or the statement "who cares".
|
"Oz" <Oz@farmeroz.port995.com> wrote
| Quote: |
This is probably pretty common in every country, but there are plenty of
smart young people in every country, so its not particularly notable.
|
Sadly, in my experience she is by far the most impressive girl of her age
I have ever met. Far exceeding any AmeriKKKan high school student I have
evre met.
| Quote: |
In any case, this 17 year old immigrant was more intelligent than the
combined intelligence displayed by 100 average AmeriKKKan adults.
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"Oz" <Oz@farmeroz.port995.com> wrote
| Quote: |
Now you are being gratuitously rude to our american cousins.
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Nope. They are chimps in comparison.
| Quote: |
In a nutshell the problem was that White Land owners were using
essentially slave labour
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"Oz" <Oz@farmeroz.port995.com> wrote
| Quote: |
Eh? Oh, well she either hasn't been to Zm or hasn't spoken to workers
there. The farm workers were well paid, well housed and well educated by
local standards. That why they were envied and why mugabe had to get rid
of them.
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Ahahahahahaha... They were and many still are Mugabe supporters.
I'll Just stop right there because you are evolving from a liar to a
stupid liar. |
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Fata Morgana
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| Posted: Sun Apr 08, 2007 10:41 am Post subject: Re: Government-bought farms collapse |
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"Vendicar Decarian" <BushIsATraitor@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:hT%Rh.3749$Nm.3102@read2.cgocable.net...
| Quote: |
Hmmm, what could be the point of placing sanctions against the export of
product from a nation that is undergoing an economic decline? Hmmmm...
I wonder what purpose that would serve... Hmmm. I wonder what the effect
that would have.... Hmmmm. In wonder what the effect of restricting
international investment would have on a declining economy? Hmmmmm
Gee, I wonder.... Don't you?
|
The restriction is that it is a declining economy and no commercial
organisation will invest in something
which is likely not to show a return on that investment.
Additionally as far as the country concerned, it itself had barred any
commercial investment from white europeans.
It has also made it unsafe for any white europeans to enter the country to
research possible investments even if investors could be found. |
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Jim Webster
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Apr 08, 2007 10:45 am Post subject: Re: Government-bought farms collapse |
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"Vendicar Decarian" <BushIsATraitor@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:hT%Rh.3749$Nm.3102@read2.cgocable.net...
| Quote: |
"Vendicar Decarian" <BushIsATraitor@hotmail.com> wrote in message
It's rather obvious. Virtually all trade with the country is restricted
as a result of the U.S. embargo that punishes not only AmeriKKKans who
trade, but confiscates the property of any other person who happens to
trade and who's property is accessable to the U.S. government.
"Jim Webster" <jim@websterpagebank.freeswerve.co.uk> wrote
pity it happened before the sanctions really, otherwise you'd have been
saved the embarassment of having to think up excuses
Hmmm, what could be the point of placing sanctions against the export of
product from a nation that is undergoing an economic decline? Hmmmm...
I wonder what purpose that would serve... Hmmm. I wonder what the effect
that would have.... Hmmmm. In wonder what the effect of restricting
international investment would have on a declining economy? Hmmmmm
Gee, I wonder.... Don't you?
|
well at least you have finally admitted the economy was indecline before
sanctions. I suppose this is a good start
Jim Webster |
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Oz
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Apr 08, 2007 2:12 pm Post subject: Re: Government-bought farms collapse |
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Vendicar Decarian <BushIsATraitor@hotmail.com> writes
| Quote: |
Vendicar Decarian <BushIsATraitor@hotmail.com> writes
What she witnessed, she witnessed first hand. I would say her take on
reality is much more tuned to reality than yours apparently.
"Oz" <Oz@farmeroz.port995.com> wrote
I employed (in the UK, as a farmstudent) a black zimbabwean, he
disagreed with you.
So he disagrees that I heard a conversation that he was not present to
hear or witness?
|
Don't be a prat. He disagrees with your statements.
| Quote: |
By that logic, I therfore deny that he exists.
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Please yourself.
| Quote: |
"Oz" <Oz@farmeroz.port995.com> wrote
I recently returned from south africa, where an astonishing number of
waiters and other hotel staff seemed to be either zimbabwean or had
family in zimbabwe (both black and white) and they most certainly would
violently disagree with you.
So you have gone back in time and asked them and then come forward in
time to inform me?
|
Note "would most ...".
You seem to think that I have never discussed the situation in zimbabwe
(and other places). Your statements are so contrary to what everyone I
have spoken to says, and even the press, that there is no problem saying
it is in direct contradiction. Note that I spoke to several (educated)
black zimbabweans as well. Everyone gave the same picture which is
directly contrary to what you have said here.
| Quote: |
Or is it that you are just projecting your opinions on them - not having
informed them of the conversation that I had after you had left their
presence?
|
You are not the first person I have spoken to about zimbabwe, you will
(not) be astonished to learn.
| Quote: |
"Oz" <Oz@farmeroz.port995.com> wrote
The UK press and reporters who report on zimbabwe would definitely
disagree with you.
Oh, I don't think you have asked them either.
|
Prat, they print articles pretty regularly on zimbabwe.
| Quote: |
"Oz" <Oz@farmeroz.port995.com> wrote
The economist reports would definitely disagree with you.
Economists would disagree that placing trade sanctions on a nation whose
economy is based on exports will not damage the economy?
|
Specific against you and the other government officials.
Not general and so not damaging the country.
As you are very well aware.
--
Oz
This post is worth absolutely nothing and is probably fallacious. |
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Vendicar Decarian
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Apr 08, 2007 11:09 pm Post subject: Re: Government-bought farms collapse |
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"Fata Morgana" <fata.morgana@taekwondo.co.nz> wrote
| Quote: |
The restriction is that it is a declining economy and no commercial
organisation will invest in something
which is likely not to show a return on that investment.
|
The embargo goes far farther than that, and includes second layer
ancillaries.
But even with your laughable interpretation, all banking investment
necessarily dries up. Farmers can no longer get loans to purchase seed and
fertilizer and other supplies, and production declines further.
Now the ancillary provision is even more insidious because anyone who
contracts with a flagged contractor who is barred, is at risk of having
their property stolen by AmeriKKKa as soon as it is within the Grasp of the
AmeriKKKan state.
So if if there is a bank X that profits from loans to farmers, and you
have cash in a bank Y that moves some money through Bank X, and your account
in bank Y becomes available to an AmeriKKKan bank, then they are legally
required to steal your money and give it to Uncle Sam, under the fiat order
issued Georgie Bush.
This is the same kind of theft by AmeriKKKa that North Korea is
complaining about and which has assisted in keeping North Korea
impoverished.
"Fata Morgana" <fata.morgana@taekwondo.co.nz> wrote
| Quote: |
Additionally as far as the country concerned, it itself had barred any
commercial investment from white europeans.
|
No it didn't. But it did blacklist several financial institutions who had
shown racial prefernce in their financial dealings with White Businessmen
over Black Businessmen.
"Fata Morgana" <fata.morgana@taekwondo.co.nz> wrote
| Quote: |
It has also made it unsafe for any white europeans to enter the country to
research possible investments even if investors could be found.
|
As a side effect, this is true. No one is defending Mugabe here, or the
bulk of his childish policies that have greatly damaged the country. I am
pointing out two facts.
The first is that the west has sought to make an example of Zimbabwe for
daring to upset the Capitalist system that was benefitting the white
population while enslaving the black population. What would have been a
reduction in production for a generation or two has been puposely magnified
by western Capitalists into a humanitarian crisis.
The second point is that Democratic government often will fail to provide
adequate or even rational government when the people are spectacularly
ignorant, and when they are spectacularly complacient to political
corruption.
The Rise and fall of the Mugabe and Bush governmetns are prime examples of
the failure of the public to elect rational leaders.
I am immediately reminded of an Interview I saw with an Afghan in the days
after 911. When asked about the event, he proclaimed that he had heard of a
tent falling in AmeriKKKa and that many camels were killed.
From this, and other similar comments, it is pretty clear to me that
attempts to establish a working democracy in Afghanistan will fail as well.
KKKonservatives up until this year thought otherwise of course. But then
they have a collective IQ of a Camel.
It's time to get the U.N. out of the U.S. and the U.S. out of existance. |
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Vendicar Decarian
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| Posted: Sun Apr 08, 2007 11:15 pm Post subject: Re: Government-bought farms collapse |
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"Jim Webster" <jim@websterpagebank.freeswerve.co.uk> wrote
| Quote: |
so actually you do not post them because they show that the fall in grain
production happened long before the 'sanctions' and you'd have to take
responsibility for yourselves rather than wailing and blaming someone else
|
I expect a decadal reduction in production as farms are split up and
distributed to the former near slaves who worked them.
But that didn't cause the humanitarian crisis. AmeriKKKan and European
sanctions that were designed to magnify poverty did. |
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Jim Webster
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Apr 08, 2007 11:16 pm Post subject: Re: Government-bought farms collapse |
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"Vendicar Decarian" <BushIsATraitor@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:R5bSh.3830$Nm.2279@read2.cgocable.net...
| Quote: |
"Fata Morgana" <fata.morgana@taekwondo.co.nz> wrote
The restriction is that it is a declining economy and no commercial
organisation will invest in something
which is likely not to show a return on that investment.
The embargo goes far farther than that, and includes second layer
ancillaries.
But even with your laughable interpretation, all banking investment
necessarily dries up. Farmers can no longer get loans to purchase seed
and fertilizer and other supplies, and production declines further.
|
funny that
banks tend not to lend to countries where the government has a policy of
confiscating the assets of people they regard as foriegn, or just dislike in
any way.
Nothing quite as good as cutting foriegn investment as confiscating assets,
somehow it really puts investors off.
Jim Webster |
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Jim Webster
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| Posted: Sun Apr 08, 2007 11:21 pm Post subject: Re: Government-bought farms collapse |
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"Vendicar Decarian" <BushIsATraitor@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:SabSh.3832$Nm.1300@read2.cgocable.net...
| Quote: |
"Jim Webster" <jim@websterpagebank.freeswerve.co.uk> wrote
so actually you do not post them because they show that the fall in grain
production happened long before the 'sanctions' and you'd have to take
responsibility for yourselves rather than wailing and blaming someone
else
I expect a decadal reduction in production as farms are split up and
distributed to the former near slaves who worked them.
|
So as free men they could only plant a third of what they could as 'near
slaves'?
Commercial maize planting
1999-2000: 150,000ha
2000-2001: 68,000ha
2001-2002: 40,000ha
Source: FEWS.net
sanctions were introduced March 7 2003 so sanctions introduced after
production fell
Jim Webster |
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Fata Morgana
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| Posted: Mon Apr 09, 2007 12:31 am Post subject: Re: Government-bought farms collapse |
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"Vendicar Decarian" <BushIsATraitor@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:R5bSh.3830$Nm.2279@read2.cgocable.net...
| Quote: |
But even with your laughable interpretation, all banking investment
necessarily dries up. Farmers can no longer get loans to purchase seed
and fertilizer and other supplies, and production declines further.
|
In a properly run economy the banks are national and loan within national
boundries. If Zimbabwie was
democratically run it would not be dependent on foreign banks and the
european and american banking organisations
would have to compete with the domestic banks for business.
European & American sanctions did not have the dramatic effects on the
Smith regime because the underlying economy was sound.
So with a sound economy external financing is not needed and if unsound no
commercial bank will loan money.
That leaves foreign governments making loans which they do not expect to get
back and for which they will be allowed no control by the Magabie
governemnt, not likely to happen.
There is no way out for Zimbabwie other than within its own borders and that
will be with the post-Magabie government, and then only if it is a stable
democratic one.
The trigger issue was the government stole the possesions of a group of its
citizens based on their racial origins, something that
America and Europe do not tolerate within their own countries and which you
appear to support. |
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Vendicar Decarian
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Apr 09, 2007 1:39 am Post subject: Re: Government-bought farms collapse |
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"Jim Webster" <jim@websterpagebank.freeswerve.co.uk> wrote
| Quote: |
funny that banks tend not to lend to countries where the government has a
policy of confiscating the assets of people they regard as foriegn, or
just dislike in any way.
|
Ya, isn't it funny how capitalists whine about the problems that their own
actions cause and amplify...
"Jim Webster" <jim@websterpagebank.freeswerve.co.uk> wrote
| Quote: |
Nothing quite as good as cutting foriegn investment as confiscating
assets, somehow it really puts investors off.
|
Particularly when it is prohibited by AmeriKKKan government Fiat. |
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Vendicar Decarian
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Apr 09, 2007 1:50 am Post subject: Re: Government-bought farms collapse |
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| Quote: |
"Vendicar Decarian" <BushIsATraitor@hotmail.com> wrote
But even with your laughable interpretation, all banking investment
necessarily dries up. Farmers can no longer get loans to purchase seed
and fertilizer and other supplies, and production declines further.
|
Fata Morgana" <fata.morgana@taekwondo.co.nz> wrote
| Quote: |
In a properly run economy the banks are national and loan within national
boundries.
|
Which is against the desires and pressures of Global Capitalists who
insist that the developing world open itself to foreign control and
exploitation - OR ELSE.
Fata Morgana" <fata.morgana@taekwondo.co.nz> wrote
| Quote: |
If Zimbabwie was democratically run it would not be dependent on foreign
banks and the european and american banking organisations
would have to compete with the domestic banks for business.
|
It is democratically run. How did Mugabe get into power? Remind me
please....
Fata Morgana" <fata.morgana@taekwondo.co.nz> wrote
| Quote: |
European & American sanctions did not have the dramatic effects on the
Smith regime because the underlying economy was sound.
|
The embargo who's link I provided, is an embargo that was set well after
the Smith regime was displaced by the current Democratically elected
government.
Fata Morgana" <fata.morgana@taekwondo.co.nz> wrote
| Quote: |
So with a sound economy external financing is not needed and if unsound no
commercial bank will loan money.
|
True. And putting sanctions on an economy in recession can drive that
economy into a deep recession or depression as is the case in Zimbabwe.
You see, what you do is give the Indians disease tainted blankets, and
then when they begin to die, you accuse them of being unworthy of existance
in the eyes of God, and use that to justify witholding of medical help. Let
the heathens die. God wouldn't be killing them if they were White.
Fata Morgana" <fata.morgana@taekwondo.co.nz> wrote
| Quote: |
There is no way out for Zimbabwie other than within its own borders and
that will be with the post-Magabie government, and then only if it is a
stable democratic one.
|
The Mugabe government is a democratically elected stable government.
Fata Morgana" <fata.morgana@taekwondo.co.nz> wrote
| Quote: |
The trigger issue was the government stole the possesions of a group of
its citizens based on their racial origins, something that
|
Yup, that was the event that triggered the AmeriKKKan and European
Capitalists to create the humanitarian crisis in Zimbabwe.
"Lets make an example of those fucking niggas who stole our money......" -
Western Capitalists
Fata Morgana" <fata.morgana@taekwondo.co.nz> wrote
| Quote: |
America and Europe do not tolerate within their own countries and which
you appear to support.
|
What do I appear to support?
AmeriKKKa doesn't tollerate resistance to it's Fascist government. |
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Vendicar Decarian
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| Posted: Mon Apr 09, 2007 1:51 am Post subject: Re: Government-bought farms collapse |
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"Jim Webster" <jim@websterpagebank.freeswerve.co.uk> wrote
| Quote: |
well at least you have finally admitted the economy was indecline before
sanctions. I suppose this is a good start
|
Of course it was. There was never any question about that. You seem
content with your straw man victory. |
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