| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
M Rimmer
Guest
|
 Posted: Wed May 30, 2007 11:10 pm Post subject: Moving a WBC hive |
 |
|
Hi, normally I make a point to lurk in a newsgroup for a few weeks
before I post, but I need an answer fairly quickly. So I've read back
through the archives for a few weeks instead. You seem like a helpful
bunch.
I'm a novice to beekeeping. I live in England. I've been on a course and
read a few books and I'm keen to get started with my own bees. Someone
about 2 hours' drive away has offered to sell me a colony in a WBC hive,
but when I contacted a chap at my local beekeeping association (which
I've joined and attended a couple of meetings) he was very dubious about
the practicality of moving a WBC hive.
I thought a WBC hive was basically similar to a National but with an
additional outer skin. So whatever you do to move a National hive (add a
travelling screen, block the entrance, strap it all together and then
take it nice and slow) ought to work for a WBC once you've removed the
lifts. Is that wrong?
The chap from my association said it could only be done by moving the
frames into a National or a nucleus first, then transferring them back
after the move. But the woman who is offering me the bees said when she
got them in the first place she just blocked the entrance, strapped them
all together, then wrapped them up in a dustsheet to contain any
escapees and she moved them with no problems.
So I don't know what to do. Either the chap at the association is making
a mountain out of a molehill and moving WBC hives isn't as hard as all
that. Or else my friend was just very lucky she managed to move them
without serious mishap. I wonder what your take on it is?
--
Mel Rimmer
www.bean-sprouts.org |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
| |
Ads |
Advertising
Sponsor
|
|
xyzzy
Guest
|
| Posted: Thu May 31, 2007 12:23 am Post subject: Re: Moving a WBC hive |
|
|
| Quote: |
I thought a WBC hive was basically similar to a National but with an
additional outer skin. So whatever you do to move a National hive (add a
travelling screen, block the entrance, strap it all together and then
take it nice and slow) ought to work for a WBC once you've removed the
lifts. Is that wrong?
|
Hi Mel,
I'm a National man myself, so not too familiar with WBCs. However, I
would have thought you simply remove the outer skins, or lifts as they
are called, add the travel screen, block the entrance, strap it all
together and then move it. I moved a national out of my garden to a
nearby farm recently and basically did just that, although I didn't
use a travel screen, but then it was only a 20 minute drive away. I
also wrapped it in an old bed sheet just in case any escaped - but
none did.
If you haven't got any straps or can't borrow any, try your local
Wilkinson store. They do some straps with a ratchet action that
allows you to tighten the strap up. If the current owner is able to
clear and remove any supers first it'll make the task less back-
breaking. Another pair of hands makes also life easier.
Some say to move hives at the end of the day when the bees have
stopped flying. However you may then find you are setting them up
their new position in the dark. Personally, I'd close them up early
in the morning before they start flying then move them.
I'd also recommend asking your question on the British Beekeepers'
Association forum. You should get plenty of feed back from more
knowledgeable beeks (I'm only in my second year at this). Go to
http://www.bbka.org.uk and click on the link for Support Boards.
Just my two penneth worth. All the best with your new hobby. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
| |
Ads |
Advertising
Sponsor
|
|
Ben
Guest
|
| Posted: Thu May 31, 2007 1:32 am Post subject: Re: Moving a WBC hive |
|
|
M Rimmer wrote:
| Quote: |
Hi, normally I make a point to lurk in a newsgroup for a few weeks
before I post, but I need an answer fairly quickly. So I've read back
through the archives for a few weeks instead. You seem like a helpful
bunch.
I'm a novice to beekeeping. I live in England. I've been on a course and
read a few books and I'm keen to get started with my own bees. Someone
about 2 hours' drive away has offered to sell me a colony in a WBC hive,
but when I contacted a chap at my local beekeeping association (which
I've joined and attended a couple of meetings) he was very dubious about
the practicality of moving a WBC hive.
I thought a WBC hive was basically similar to a National but with an
additional outer skin. So whatever you do to move a National hive (add a
travelling screen, block the entrance, strap it all together and then
take it nice and slow) ought to work for a WBC once you've removed the
lifts. Is that wrong?
The chap from my association said it could only be done by moving the
frames into a National or a nucleus first, then transferring them back
after the move. But the woman who is offering me the bees said when she
got them in the first place she just blocked the entrance, strapped them
all together, then wrapped them up in a dustsheet to contain any
escapees and she moved them with no problems.
So I don't know what to do. Either the chap at the association is making
a mountain out of a molehill and moving WBC hives isn't as hard as all
that. Or else my friend was just very lucky she managed to move them
without serious mishap. I wonder what your take on it is?
|
Buy a National hive, move the frames into it then BURN the WBC hive (or
sell it as a 'twee' garden ornament, WBC hives are nice to look at,
however they are hell to use and the brood chamber is too small (for
that matter the National is also on the small side if you are in the
south of England,) I personally use the 16x10" commercial brood chamber
above an open mesh floor with National supers.
however moving the WBC is not any harder than any other hive, just
remove the outer lifts, block the entrance, and strap it together with a
travelling screen on the top like any other hive.
Ben. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
| |
Ads |
Advertising
Sponsor
|
|
Freddie Cooke
Guest
|
| Posted: Thu May 31, 2007 2:19 am Post subject: Re: Moving a WBC hive |
|
|
Hi there Mel, I normally transfer mine to a standard National with a
travelling screen and an entrance block fitted with a mesh breather to help
them maintain an airflow during what can be a three hour move.
The only problem with moving the brood chamber of a WBC is that its floor
isn't very convenient to handle using straps and then its difficult to block
the entrance.
It is fairly easy to knock up a simple floor using a crown board [with or
without added battening]. Then you simply stand it on the rope/strap and
sit the brood chamber on it and the travelling screen on top and tie it all
up. A through airflow isn't important for a short journey.
Just in case of an accident I always advise that you should wear your bee
suit so if the worst happens you can quickly veil-up.
Best wishes, Freddie. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
| |
Ads |
Advertising
Sponsor
|
|
Ben
Guest
|
| Posted: Fri Jun 01, 2007 9:59 pm Post subject: Re: Moving a WBC hive |
|
|
Tim W wrote:
| Quote: |
"Ben" <ben.dot.smith@ntlworld.dot.com> wrote in message
news:F3m7i.15011$xU4.8165@newsfe1-gui.ntli.net...
M Rimmer wrote:
[...]
I'm a novice to beekeeping. I live in England. I've been on a course and
read a few books and I'm keen to get started with my own bees. Someone
about 2 hours' drive away has offered to sell me a colony in a WBC hive,
but when I contacted a chap at my local beekeeping association (which
I've joined and attended a couple of meetings) he was very dubious about
the practicality of moving a WBC hive.
Buy a National hive, move the frames into it then BURN the WBC hive (or
sell it as a 'twee' garden ornament, WBC hives are nice to look at,
however they are hell to use and the brood chamber is too small (for that
matter the National is also on the small side if you are in the south of
England,) I personally use the 16x10" commercial brood chamber above an
open mesh floor with National supers.
however moving the WBC is not any harder than any other hive, just remove
the outer lifts, block the entrance, and strap it together with a
travelling screen on the top like any other hive.
Ben.
Welcome to the world of beekeeping. Be extremely suspicious of the sort of
advice given above by Ben. WBC Hives were the best hives for the uk fifty
years ago and you must question why they are said to be no longer suitable.
If you want to practice commercial beekeeping and get commercial quantities
of commercial quality honey then you will need a massive hive, but you may
prefer more natural methods and you should be aware that enormous damage has
been done to the native bee population by commercial beekeeping practices.
Tim w
Tim, |
The WBC was fine in the days when the black British bee was the
predominant strain as they were not very prolific, however the strain of
bee has shifted towards the Italian bee (at least in the warmer parts of
the UK) and if you keep them in such a small hive they will swarm very
readily. also the design of the WBC makes inspection harder as there are
twice as many parts to move, other than looks I cannot think of a single
advantage that these have over standard hives (the National was
introduced to correct some of the main failings of the WBC and other
similar hives, well over 50 years ago!)
I am not a commercial beekeeper and only have 2 hives, I made the
mistake of starting with a WBC hive over 30 years ago and very quickly
moved to National, a few years ago I went over to Commercial brood
chambers and mesh floors, The bees are doing far better, they build up
faster in the spring and have not tried to swarm for the last 2 years (I
replace 3 or 4 brood frames every spring) also I have had far more honey
than I ever used to get.
Ben.
NB what are the "enormous damages" that you hint at?? references please. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
| |
Ads |
Advertising
Sponsor
|
|
Tim W
Guest
|
| Posted: Sat Jun 02, 2007 1:24 am Post subject: Re: Moving a WBC hive |
|
|
"Ben" <ben.dot.smith@ntlworld.dot.com> wrote in message
news:p8Z7i.6216$J15.3497@newsfe3-gui.ntli.net...
| Quote: |
Tim W wrote:
"Ben" <ben.dot.smith@ntlworld.dot.com> wrote in message
news:F3m7i.15011$xU4.8165@newsfe1-gui.ntli.net...
[...] WBC Hives were the best hives for the uk fifty years ago and you
must question why they are said to be no longer suitable. If you want to
practice commercial beekeeping and get commercial quantities of
commercial quality honey then you will need a massive hive, but you may
prefer more natural methods and you should be aware that enormous damage
has been done to the native bee population by commercial beekeeping
practices.
The WBC was fine in the days when the black British bee was the
predominant strain as they were not very prolific, however the strain of
bee has shifted towards the Italian bee (at least in the warmer parts of
the UK) and if you keep them in such a small hive they will swarm very
readily. also the design of the WBC makes inspection harder as there are
twice as many parts to move, other than looks I cannot think of a single
advantage that these have over standard hives (the National was introduced
to correct some of the main failings of the WBC and other similar hives,
well over 50 years ago!)
I am not a commercial beekeeper and only have 2 hives, I made the mistake
of starting with a WBC hive over 30 years ago and very quickly moved to
National, a few years ago I went over to Commercial brood chambers and
mesh floors, The bees are doing far better, they build up faster in the
spring and have not tried to swarm for the last 2 years (I replace 3 or 4
brood frames every spring) also I have had far more honey than I ever used
to get.
Ben.
NB what are the "enormous damages" that you hint at?? references please.
|
You said it yourself. The native black bee has effectively been wiped out,
and even the bees kept by beekeepers who never buy a queen are so
mongrelised, over-sized and subject to parasites that they cannot live in
the wild. This has been done by beekeepers. Careless to say the least. And
beekeepers continue to buy their commercially bred bees blithely ignoring
the minor desaster which they have perpetrated.
Rimmer can keep black bees in his WBCs and I think it would be a fine start
for him but he will have to buy the queens from one of a handful of breeders
who can supply them. A tragedy really.
Tim w |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
| |
Ads |
Advertising
Sponsor
|
|
Ben
Guest
|
| Posted: Sat Jun 02, 2007 1:49 am Post subject: Re: Moving a WBC hive |
|
|
Tim W wrote:
<SNIP>
| Quote: |
NB what are the "enormous damages" that you hint at?? references please.
You said it yourself. The native black bee has effectively been wiped out,
and even the bees kept by beekeepers who never buy a queen are so
mongrelised, over-sized and subject to parasites that they cannot live in
the wild. This has been done by beekeepers. Careless to say the least. And
beekeepers continue to buy their commercially bred bees blithely ignoring
the minor desaster which they have perpetrated.
Rimmer can keep black bees in his WBCs and I think it would be a fine start
for him but he will have to buy the queens from one of a handful of breeders
who can supply them. A tragedy really.
Tim w
Close, however the native bee was all but wiped out by disease in the |
early 1900's, many bee-keepers in the 1920's had to turn to imported
bees and queens or loose their livelihood, even the renowned brother
Adam was using queens from all over Europe in order to breed a strain
resistant to 'Isle of Wight disease' (Acarine).
So this is hardly a modern problem, also around here bees manage very
well in the wild, their numbers are beginning to bounce back as they get
better at coping with Varroa (probably because they are 'mongrels').
Ben.
for further reading about Isle of Wight disease see:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diseases_of_the_honey_bee |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
| |
Ads |
Advertising
Sponsor
|
|
Steve Newport
Guest
|
| Posted: Sat Jun 02, 2007 2:34 am Post subject: Re: Moving a WBC hive |
|
|
On Wed, 30 May 2007 23:19:01 +0100, "Freddie Cooke" <fcooke@fast4.net>
wrote:
| Quote: |
Hi there Mel, I normally transfer mine to a standard National with a
travelling screen and an entrance block fitted with a mesh breather to help
them maintain an airflow during what can be a three hour move.
The only problem with moving the brood chamber of a WBC is that its floor
isn't very convenient to handle using straps and then its difficult to block
the entrance.
It is fairly easy to knock up a simple floor using a crown board [with or
without added battening]. Then you simply stand it on the rope/strap and
sit the brood chamber on it and the travelling screen on top and tie it all
up. A through airflow isn't important for a short journey.
Just in case of an accident I always advise that you should wear your bee
suit so if the worst happens you can quickly veil-up.
Best wishes, Freddie.
|
Listen to Mr Cooke. I have nationals and i believe you will find them
predominant in the UK ( at least in the South).
There is NOTHING wrong with th WBC except it is a tad smaller than the
national and interchangeability is an issue.
WBC is good for looks. national is practical.
Having said that I would love a white WBC in my garden ! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
| |
Ads |
Advertising
Sponsor
|
|
timrowe@eircom.net
Guest
|
| Posted: Sat Jun 02, 2007 11:09 am Post subject: Re: Moving a WBC hive |
|
|
In fact, there's another good reason for using WBC hives - a double
wall keeps damp out very effectively. Damp timber is difficult to warm
up and takes up heat from its surroundings as it dries out.
(I live on the western seaboard of Ireland and I know well the effects
of horizontal driving rain..)
I agree that the WBC brood-box is too small - even with native black
bees (I have 60 stocks of them myself) - but so is a National
broodbox. That's why so many keep their bees on a 'box-and-a-half'.
If you have the extra time needed for WBCs, I'd say stick with them
and simply give the queen as much room as she needs.
Personally I've given up on WBCs, Nationals and Commercials and have
just built 50 new hives of my own design with good results so far...
More on that later, if anyone's interested..
Have fun, Tim |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
| |
Ads |
Advertising
Sponsor
|
|
M Rimmer
Guest
|
| Posted: Sat Jun 02, 2007 4:15 pm Post subject: Re: Moving a WBC hive |
|
|
The attraction to me of a WBC hive is simply this - one has been offered
to me. The instructor on the course I attended (called Bob Parsonage)
seemed extremely experienced and knowledgeable, and he said that he
thought WBC hives were very good. My friend who is oferring it to me has
6, and she has good results with them. Other hobby beekeepers seem to
use them as well, so I don't really accept the argument that only a
complete imbecile would consider using one. But I accept they're not a
good choice for a large-scale commercial operation. That's OK though,
I'm not planning such an operation.
My question was this: How do I move one? If anyone here has experience
of moving a WBC hive I'd love to hear it.
--
Mel Rimmer
www.bean-sprouts.org |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
| |
Ads |
Advertising
Sponsor
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
106 Attacks blocked
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group
|
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
